Hi Everyone,
This is Richard Hoy, Angela's husband and business partner.
I thought it might be a good idea for everyone to see an example of the angry rhetoric and accusations we typically endure as a result of hosting the Whispers and Warnings Forum for you all.
Today's example is a company named Deveraux and Deloitte. They are located in the United Kingdom and their web site is at:
http://www.deverauxdeloitte.com/
It appears that the company does research writing - a customer sends them specifications for a research paper and they arrange for a writer to write the paper. It is unclear from their site if the writers are on staff or are freelance writers. But judging from comments on Whispers and Warnings as well as other Internet forums, it appears that at least some of their writers are working freelance.
On February 2, 2004, a post was placed on the Whispers and Warnings Forum inquiring if anyone had heard of the company and what their reputation was. That thread is here:
http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=1431
There were mixed responses - some pro and some against. But eventually the discussion evolved into the ethics of using such a service by students who then turn around and submit the papers to their instructors as their own. The reason the discussion evolved into this is because there was speculation that it was really Deveraux and Deloitte's primary business.
Afterwards, Angela received several emails from Deveraux and Deloitte threatening legal action, including ones claiming to be from a "Geoffrey Marston" in their legal department.
In a February 26, 2004 email to Angela, "Geoffrey Marston" wrote this:
"As a Barrister I can assure you that I am more than familiar with the law in this area."
A barrister, in the UK legal system, is someone authorized to argue a case before a court. The tone of the emails was quite unprofessional and Angela became suspicious. We investigated Geoffrey Marston's claim with The General Council of The Bar, the governing body for barristers in the UK. They told us that at one time there was a barrister named Geoffrey Marston and he was called to the bar (became a member) in July of 1993. But he is currently not a member, so there is, in fact, no practicing barrister named Geoffrey Marston in the UK at the present time.
Here is the letter they sent us:
http://www.writersweekly.com/images/misc/letter.jpg (jpeg, 73K)
We did find another barrister named Geoffrey Marston, but he died in 2002.
The headers in the emails from the Deveraux and Deloitte "barrister" included this line:
Received: from BARCLAY (unknown [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx]) (IP Address intentionally omitted by WritersWeekly)
On March 10, 2004, Angela received an email from "Barclay Deloitte" who claimed someone was posting things in his name to the WritersWeekly forum.
He then stated, "I realise that you are a small home based company and have no wishes to get involved in any argument or any legal action, however this matter is of course very, very serious. I certainly do not want this to turn into a dispute, you and your posters are of course entitled to view your opinions about us but someone has taken this too far..."
The headers from the emails received from "Barclay Deloitte" included this line:
Received: from BARCLAY (unknown [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx]) (IP Address intentionally omitted by WritersWeekly)
NOTE: The IP addresses were identical.
Notice the name "BARCLAY" appears in both.
In Angela's response to the email from "Barclay" she pointed out the following:
1.) That we put an inquiry about Geoffrey Marston in to The General Council of The Bar and they notified us that he is not licensed to practice in the UK.
2.) That Barclay and Geoffrey seem to have the exact same IP address.
He responded by stating, "Geoffrey trained at the bar, but was never called, and as such is an in-house legal expert. Our mails have of course come from the same office and computer network. I am not expert but I imagine that is the reason you will see the same I.P. address on your system."
Angela replied:
From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com>
To: "Barclay" <xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Contact
Date sent: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:17:39 -0500
That's odd because Geoffrey specifically told me he's a barrister. Is
that not true or did I misunderstand something?
Angela
"Barclay" didn't respond.
Angela emailed "Barclay" again on March 13, 2004:
From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com>
To: xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Subject: (Fwd) RE: FW: Contact
Date sent: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:33:46 -0500
Hi Barclay,
I'm still waiting for confirmation on whether Geoffrey is or is not a
barrister.
Angela
He responded that he was too busy to deal with our inquiries, but then said, "As stated before he undertook the BVC course, but was never called. Thus he has trained as a Barrister but did not get called to the Bar or practice."
Angela then sent this email to "Geoffrey Marston."
From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com>
To: xxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Subject: RE: Contact
Copies to: xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Date sent: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:16:43 -0500
Hi Geoffrey,
After researching your claims and receiving confirmation from your
"employer", we have determined that you are not a barrister. You lied.
We have filed an official complaint about you with The General
Council of The Bar.
Angela Hoy
WritersWeekly.com
"Geoffrey Marston" never responded.
On April 13, 2004, Angela sent this email to "Barclay" and "Geoffrey":
From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com
Subject: from WritersWeekly.com
Copies to: xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Date sent: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:08:12 -0400
We have received a response to our complaint to The General Council
of The Bar and they have confirmed you are not a practicing barrister
and that your actions were unethical.
We plan to publish this information in WritersWeekly under the
complaints about Deveraux and Deloitte. Perhaps you or your employer
would like to issue a statement in your own defense prior to
publication? We would be happy to publish any response you care to
submit.
Angela Hoy
WritersWeekly.com
They never responded.
We had already sent instructions to Deveraux and Deloitte on how they could post rebuttal messages to the forum in their own defense. Forum members can contact other forum members via their email or private message button. However, once we shared the information provided by the General Council of the Bar with them, things quieted down and we heard no more from anyone at Deveraux and Deloitte until six months later.
On December 4th, we received an email from yet another person claiming to represent Deveruax and Deloitte, a "James Gibson."
Mr. Gibson has a different IP address from "Barclay" and "Geoffrey". His misspellings and grammatical errors, along with his personal insults make us think he's writing to us in anger and not double-checking his writing before clicking "send." We're not sure why a company that claims to be as big as Deveraux and Deloitte is allowing someone like this to correspond with us in such a manner.
He demanded that various posts from the Deveraux and Deloitte thread be removed or they would ask that our ISP shut us down. Angela passed the email on to me and I took up the correspondence.
That is the story up to this point. Below begins my exchange with Mr. Gibson.
After we threatened to reveal all his email correspondence to our readers, in his last email, Mr. Gibson stated the following:
"...all correspondence sent to you from Deveraux and Deloitte is private and intended for the sole viewing of you and Angela Hoy only."
So, that means I'll have to paraphrase his side of the conversation.
----------------------------------
WritersWeekly.com:
----------------------------------
Date: 12/04/2004
To: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
From: richard at booklocker.com
Subject: Re: Deveraux and Deloitte - Notice Of Libellous Postings
Mr. Gibson,
This matter has been referred to me. I am President and Co-owner of
Booklocker.com, Inc., which owns WritersWeekly.com.
I suggest you read this statement, which is on top of every page of the Forum:
"Statements appearing in these forums represent the opinions of the
authors of each
post, not the opinion of WritersWeekly.com and/or Booklocker.com."
We are not responsible for what is posted on our Forum. The people
making the posts are. United States law supports this position.
Therefore, if you have a problem with what is being said about your
company, you need to contact the posters of the messages and resolve
the matter with them.
Good day to you,
Richard Hoy
President
Booklocker.com, Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------
Deveraux and Deloitte's Response
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:05:07 -0000
From: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
(paraphrased by Richard Hoy):
He makes a crack about me and Angela working at home, then tells me how disappointed he is that I've taken this stance and how I have no sense.
He assures me that the only outcome will be that the posts will be removed.
Then he says they will review the US law I cited.
Then he demands that I turn over all the email addresses and IP addresses of the people who made the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like.
He ends by reiterating that he will take this up with my ISP.
----------------------------------
WritersWeekly.com:
----------------------------------
Date: 12/06/2004
To: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
From: richard at booklocker.com
Subject: Re: Deveraux and Deloitte - Notice Of Libellous Postings
Mr. Gibson,
Our privacy policy prohibits us from releasing that information
except under court order. So you would need to get such an order
before we would release that information.
What public information there is on a poster is under their profile,
which you can access by selecting the profile link under their post.
Best,
Richard Hoy
Booklocker.com, Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------
Deveraux and Deloitte's Response
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:39:21 -0000
From: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
(paraphrased by Richard Hoy):
Because I've not cooperated with his demand for the email addresses and IP addresses of the people who made the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like, he is going to contact my ISP.
He posts the contact information of our ISP to prove he knows who they are.
He says they are lodging an official complaint with them.
He accuses Angela of making some of the posts in question under pseudonyms, in a direct attempt to damage them without detection.
He reiterates his demand to remove the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like, and makes a new one. He now wants us to also police the forum for future offending posts.
----------------------------------
WritersWeekly.com:
----------------------------------
Date: 12/16/2004
To: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
From: richard at booklocker.com
Subject: Re: FW: Deveraux and Deloitte - Our Next Steps
Mr. Gibson,
As I have already stated to you in my email of 12/06/2004, under US
law we are not responsible for the postings of individual Forum
members. The individuals who made the postings are responsible. I
suggest you contact them.
You are welcome to email your complaint to our ISP. I've already
discussed this matter with them. They informed me it is well
documented in the United States that ISPs are not responsible for
posts to public bulletin boards. So as a matter of practice, they
ignore such complaints.
I will not correspond with you further on this matter.
The only way I would possibly discuss this further with your company
is if I get real correspondence from a real attorney with a real
license to practice law in the United States, not emails from an
alleged Deveraux and Deloitte corporate barrister who, upon
investigation, is not subscribed to The General Council of the Bar,
and thus is not a practicing barrister.
If you send any further correspondence to anyone at our company,
including even so much as a response to this email, I will start
posting on WritersWeekly.com correspondence we've had with Deveraux
and Deloitte so that our readers can see Deveraux and Deloitte seems
to be the kind of company that would send threatening, and, in at
least the case of the email from your supposed corporate barrister,
misleading correspondence in a effort to silence critics rather than
deal with their public relations problems in a constructive way.
Best,
Richard Hoy
Booklocker.com, Inc.
---------------------------------------------------------
Deveraux and Deloitte's Response
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:30:36 -0000
From: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
(paraphrased by Richard Hoy):
He accuses me of being stupid. He says that I am willfully and knowingly making it impossible for them to contact the authors of the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like.
He says I've breached my duty of disclosure by blocking any possibility of the requisite action being executed by ourselves, and are therefore likely to be held responsible for my actions to some extent.
He assures me that they will not allow their "business interests and reputation to be damaged".
He demands our physical address.
He accuses us of hiding because we have a PO Box as our public address.
He says they will be "seeking to fully recover any costs against you in this matter, however far down the necessary legal channels it should need to progress."
This is the part where he tells me "...all correspondence sent to you from Deveraux and Deloitte is private and intended for the sole viewing of you and Angela Hoy only." (Hence my paraphrasing.)
He tells me he will go after me legally if I post his exact words.
He reiterates that he will be contacting my ISP.
He awaits my prompt response.
END
That is the last thing that has been sent to us as of 12/17/2004.
I'll update this as new correspondence comes in.
best,
richard
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