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 Post subject: Re: royalties
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 10:14 am 
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Joined: September 8th, 2004, 12:20 pm
Posts: 49
Willow wrote:
Well, mine are on net receipts.


Willow, would you whisper in my ear the name of your publisher? And what was your pissy advance?

Remember, a book that's publishable by one is publishable by many. Aim high. Start at the top of the list and work down; don't start at the bottom of the list and work up. If you start at the bottom you'll never get to the top of the list, even if you could be published there.

(And for those who think that a bunch of small credits punches your ticket for moving out of the minor leagues -- I'll tell you what. When an editor sees a string of penny-ante credits in your cover letter she assumes that you've been scraping bottom for a long time, and that your current submission will be more of the same. Better to say nothing at all.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 10:28 am 
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......


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 Post subject: PA and Agents
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 12:05 pm 
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Joined: September 8th, 2004, 12:31 pm
Posts: 5
Location: South Georgia
This is a cross between a PA and a 'weird' agent post. Why would an agent send their authors to PA? Jillanne Kimble tried this on a friend of mine who did her homework. My friend then told her no, don't send it. www.kimblemckay.netfirms.com/ is the Agent's website.

I'm wondering whether or not she sends the author their share of the $1 advance or whether it is added to the cost of being their agent LOL.

So why would even a crooked agent send an author to a place like PA?

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 Post subject: Re: Johanna
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 12:36 pm 
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
John Allen Jaynes wrote:
Then that's your opinion Johanna and you are intitled to it, Ok? Thank you for the concern, but PA is not as BAD as many people make them out to be.

They are not opinions, they are facts. The things I have listed are what every author is entitled to. Real publishers will provide all of those things, and sometimes more. Scammers like PA will churn out books fast and play on naive writers' desire to be published.

Quote:
They offer to publish for FREE and a lot of publishers do not do that.

All real publishers do not only publish you for free, they pay you for it (not counting e-publsihers, who pay high royalties from the very first book sold). Any publisher that wants you to pay them is a vanity press and/or a scam.

Consider this: they may be publishing you for FREE (never mind the fact that you have to pay for your own copyright), but they don't have to pay a dime either. They use POD, which means that every book they print has already been paid for, with a nice profit-margin for them to pocket.

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All you pay for is copyright, nothing more.

Real publishers will handle that for you, and pay for it. The reason PA has the writer pay for the copyright is because they do not intend to spend more than one dollar and two author’s copies on each writer.

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And being your own publicist is not so bad.

Books depend on marketing to survive. Nation-wide, sometimes world-wide marketing. There's quite a difference between a skilled marketing department sending out catalogues, taking out adds, finding reviewers, arranging book signings and so on and little Miss New Writer buying 200 copied of her own book and begging her three local bookstores to stock them and give her a signing. All PA does is badger your friends and family to buy a couple of copies. Book-marketing is hectic, you have to strike while the iron is hot. It is not a one-man operation. You're going to end up stressed and distraught.

Now mind you, PA does have a marketing staff. Yet, they don’t market their books. Wonder what this staff is supposed to market? Oh, that’s right, their job is to see to the “Growth of the company”. In other word, it’s their job to cook up ways to make authors buy their own book (buy fifty copies of your book now and receive a 50% discount!!!), ways to acquire more first-time writers (want to be an Author? PublishAmerica can make YOUR dream come true! FOR FREE!) and, of course, they are to make sure that the authors are kept ignorant (like those lies about how other publishers won’t let you keep your copyright, for example).

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depends on how mush effort you want to put into getting your work out there and to the public.

And let me guess, if you end up with a royalty check that states that you’ve sold 75 books in total, it'll be all your fault, right? You didn’t market enough, didn’t buy enough. You're not going to blame precious PA, the company that Gave Your Book the Chance it Deserves™. I mean, they PUBLISHED you--they even threw in a "line by line" spell-check and gave you a crappy photoshopped cover vaguely relating to the plot of your book.

This is business. What you're doing is treating PA as a printer--they have no obligations, all they have to do is collect the cash while you work your butt off (eternally grateful to them for having offered you this wonderful opportunity). Well, what's to like about that?

Quote:
And even if one's work is accepted by one of the big boys, there are no promises it will sell.

I guarantee you that any book "accepted by the big boys" will sell more than 75 copies. And the author will be given a proper advance and REAL marketing, as well. At least with a real publisher there's a good chance you'll sell a respectable amount and reach a lot of people. There's even a chance that you'll sell a hell of a lot of books and become a known author. With PA, you don't get that chance. Ever. I don't care how optimistic you are going in, I don't care how great you are at marketing, or how many of your aunts own stores where they'll sell a few copies of your book--PA will fight you every step of the way, because they don't want bestsellers. They can't handle big orders, they don't want your book to be known and therefore sought after by reviewers (who will want free review copies).

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PA is doing something for people who otherwise may never see their work in print.

Yeah, they're bleeding them dry, which they would have been able to avoid if they kept their ms to themselves and worked on it until it became publishable.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I believe that writing is a real job, and if you can't write well enough to get published even by a small press, publishing it anyway is just going to come back to bite you. Aside from that, I think it's pretty sad that you're basically saying that PA publishes the dregs no one else wants (which is not true, I have seen plenty of decent PA books). You're proud to be "published" that way? It's just really depressing that you have such little faith in you abilities as a writer, and the quality of your book, that you'd gladly lay down and take it from a trashy scam-publisher just so you can see your book in print.

Quote:
Sure, PA has a lot of faults; I will not argue there, but there are some good points also. Some just don't see it.

Yes, there's a good point: since so few people will buy your book, no one will now who you are, so you most likely won't have to change your name and appearance to avoid the stain of being PA-published if your next book is accepted by a real publisher.

Quote:
I appreciate everyone's feedback, concerns and everything else, but some people LIKE PA. I happen to be one of them. :)

This is typical PA. They prey on the writers who are far too emotionally attached to every single word they put on paper—the kind who will forsake everything for the sake of seeing their name in print. Never mind you're not going to be available in brick and mortar stores, you're *starry-eyed* published! Who cares if other writers will pity you, and your book won’t count as a real published book (meaning you might as well have flushed it down the loo), *righteous anger* they’re just jealous of your genius, which is exactly why your book wasn’t accepted by a real publisher—they just can’t handle grandeur! PA did this, they published your work, which you love, so they must love it, and that means they love YOU--they're [insert twittering of pretty little birds] like FAMILY! Loyalty above all else. You forsake your identity as an individual writer and merge into the blob that is PA.

I'm with James on this one: come back in a year, or whenever you get your royalty check, and tell us how much money you've made, and then how much you've spent.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 2:10 pm 
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Joined: August 17th, 2004, 9:01 am
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.......


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 Post subject: Advances & Royalties
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 3:32 pm 
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Joined: August 18th, 2004, 7:49 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Wisconsin
Stuffedtoy wrote:
I do have a question(s) for those of you who have experienced other publishing contracts... what percentage do you get paid? and generally speaking what type of advances do you get? Is this subtracted from your percentage? And is that percentage from the actual sale of the book to the public? Or is it from the discounted sale to the stores themselves? !


My novels were paperback originals and my advances ranged from $10K to $35K. Royalties varied depending on what rights applied, ranging from 8% to 15%. I made between $45K and $50K on each book including royalties and advances after my agent took her cut.

The first novel was completed before it was bought but I was paid advances for the other two based on a synopsis -- half when I signed the contracts and half when the mss were done.

Royalty ranges are pretty standard in the industry. I've heard the figures $5K and $10K tossed out as typical first novel advances, although a rare few range much higher and some are lower.

Beth

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 Post subject: Re: LAUGHS
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 4:25 pm 
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
John Allen Jaynes wrote:
I LIKE HOW YOU PEOPLE QUOTE EVERYONE OF MY LINES ... FUNNY ... DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO? TROUBLE WITH YOU PEOPLE IS, YOU CAN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT ALL ALREADY AND WITH YOUR ADDITUDES, YOU'LL NEVER BE PUBLISHED WRITERS, BUT I ALREADY AM, AND NOT WITH PA. I HAVE PUBLISHED TWO CHAPBOOKS WITH FORESTLAND PUBLICATIONS AND THE PLOW MAN (CANADA) ... SO IF YOU DON'T LIKE PA, FINE, BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. I MEAN, REALLY. (LAUGHS).

Honey, I'm not looking to be a published writer, I'm looking to be a publisher. Also, I'm sorry if you're offended by the fact that we're trying to keep you from making the biggest mistake in your writing career, but that's your problem. Frankly, I can see that you're too wrapped up in the "I'm a published author *bliss*" phase, so I'm posting for the sake of those who have not yet signed their contracts.

And could you please explain to me what "YOU CAN'T TELL YOU ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT ALL ALREADY, AND WITH YOUR ADDITUDES, YOU'LL NEVER BE PUBLISHED WRITERS" means. I'm guessing that you're trying to say "Damn you people. When you insist on being treated like humans and professionals by your publishers--not to mention be paid advances and promoted--you're missing out on the easy, quick road to publication that can be found through PA, iuniverse and so on! Don't you know that writers are worthless vermin who should crawl and beg and be eternally grateful if a publisher looks their way? Better to be screwed over by a half-assed scam like *PA than to never see your name in print at all!"

Also, several of the people who have posted on this thread, warning you, are published writers. James quoted some of his advances to Stuffy, for example.

I didn't know what a chapbook is (English is not my first language), so I looked it up:

"A chapbook is an informal, usually self-published book, useful for poetry collections, family stories, or even a cookbook."

Wow, that's a real merit you've got there.


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 Post subject: PA
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:04 pm 
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Joined: April 29th, 2004, 8:49 pm
Posts: 3631
Location: God's country
I am working on my 7th book sale. I dont know what you are talking about that people on here aren't "published" writers?? HELLO, you're on a writers website. Not all are wanna-be's.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:19 pm 
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Joined: August 17th, 2004, 9:01 am
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......


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:25 pm 
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
That's a fantastic comeback. To quote your poetry: "O, woe is me!"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:29 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:30 pm 
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Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
I can tell that PA has begun teaching you how to adress people as a "professional". Way to promote yourself as an author!


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 Post subject: John I'm published
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:31 pm 
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Joined: June 23rd, 2004, 7:00 pm
Posts: 112
I have two books currently out and still earning royalties with John Wiley & Sons. PublishAmerica "published" and I use the term in jest, my third book in 2003. I have just finished a fourth book under contract with Dearborn Trade. I have been paid five figure advances for each of the books, except of course the PA book.

Best of luck with your PublishAmerica book.

Dee
http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

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http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:35 pm 
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 16th, 2004, 5:37 pm 
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