Howdy everybody!!

I thought it would be fun (perhaps that's not the right word) to share what we tell family members who think we're going to hell for our spiritual beliefs.

With regards to my new book (http://www.booklocker.com/books/1541.html), my mom asked for a copy, but I know, from her voiced opinions, that this one won't be prominently displayed along with my other titles in her liviing room. Heh...

My brother is very active in his Christian church and, last year, he threatened to fly up her to "check out" my church. He wants to save me...though I feel I was saved long ago.

I had fun sending him a copy of my new book and anxiously await the phone call that will inevitably come when he receives it in the mail next week.

Has anyone else experienced either judgment by family members, or vocal disbelief from skeptics in the family regarding your spiritual experiences? How do you deal with it?

Hugs!
Angela

Hello Angela,

I'm sending you a big hug from New York. I don't have a book out - but I've been there in terms of the belief system and church thing.

My brother is a very negative person. But I try to take it from the source. I mean no disrespect to your mother - but when I think of my brother I think he just might be negative about whatever I happened to do - even if it was something "harmless" like joining a knitting group. So taking it from the source and remembering that is important.

I don't know if you've dealt with this one - but sometimes when I tell people I attend a Spiritualist church I get a funny look and I wonder what their impression is. But I just give people a chance to get to know me and I don't talk about what I believe in unless people ask me directly - I'm not in the business of looking to convert people or something.

When my grandmother died - she came to visit me. It was a very powerful experience and the first experience I'd had with a spirit. I didn't see her, I could just feel her presence in the room. It opened me to the path to what is unseen but is there. I never really told my mother because I didn't know if grandma had visited mom - or if mom was conscious of grandma visiting her. So that's the other factor - you feel close to your family in a way that other family members might not be able to. That may be on some unconscious level hard for them and they may be a little jealous of that.

Some say we pick our families but I don't quite believe it is that simplistic. I think we pick the lessons we want to learn but we do not pick the way the lessons come to us. The lesson of wisdom can come in so many forms.

Congratulations on writing your book and on finding a spiritual path that brings you peace. These are blessings. You have many people in your life that do love you ( I did that reading - remember ), so just take her and any other people's impressions from the source.

Lots of love,

Abigail

_________________
She is the author of 2 ezines: GiftWrapGoddessWraps and CreativeCraftsTeachers. To subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CreativeCraftsTeachers/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GiftWrapGoddessWraps/

I am a Christian (well, perhaps somewhat lapsed), but I think Christians of all people should be the last to condemn someone's spiritual experiences, even if it wasn't directly with God. Unfortunately many (most?) Christians deny the spritual side of Christianity, which in my opinion is the whole point and I don't see the point to be a Christian if you are going to live a boring and closed life. The stories that I've seen here and assume are in the book should only go to prove there is a spiritual plane we don't see directly (most of the time) and only give me more evidence for the existence of God.

I don't mean to know anything about your brother, Angela, that's just my two general pennies about people Christians and spirituality :)

Jenny

I agree completely. My husband, Richard, says he just can NOT understand why Christians seem to have the hardest time believing in spirit communication...when their bible is chock full of it! :)

More hugs!
Angela

If you look back on this heading I've had ALOT of postings under spirit communication and I am a Christian, infact, a licensed minister although not working any longer as such. Yes, my previous church would roll over in the grave if they saw my postings. But even having the Christian "influence" how can I deny what has happened in my life? If you've followed my postings (also under Sandra ) you can see I've had ALOT of activity. I did all the "chrisitian things" that is suppose to make it stop if it's bad energy and it never has sooooo..........?? What is there to say about it--It IS what it IS.

My mother is Christian and she has watched this over the years--my kids, my husband. EVERYONE is very USE TO the amount of acitivity in my life. It's just a "given" that things bustle around me. In Christiandom (in some sects) it is called "the gift of spiritual discernment" when you can sense and feel and know about the spirit realm. In more conservative churches, they say these gifts died some time in the New Testament yet the first church was full of spiritual gifts! So obviously Jesus brought them INTO the church and even told them that when he left and went away thru the crucifixition that he would send the Holy Spirit and GREATER works and signs would THEY do than even he did! So spiritual aspects should INCREASE (hey, they did in my life!)

I dont really discuss alot of this with other (anal) Christians. Those who really understand it I do. But it's funny that other Christians will bring me to their house to "read the land" or want what I sense. They are willing to do that and then condemn the rest that I get (like I have control over this or something!)

I cant even pretend to understand WHY I have this and I tried to suppress it along time when I was a minister but now--hey--it is what it is and I have no control. I just ask that God help me understand what I'm suppose to get out of it or do because of it--that's all I can ask!

I guess Christians, like most people, are afraid of the unknown, though I think for we of all people this stuff should be known. I too don't get how the church has got how it is (wimpy and ineffective), I thought spiritual gifts were pretty clear in the Bible myself. And you're right, we should have even MORE, as Jesus said.

It's funny how my husband's family, poor simple people in southeast China (a strangely officicially atheistic yet still superstitious country), cannot understand how "educated people" like me and my family and many in the West can believe all that rubbish. Why do you think it is many of us have spiritual experiences and many people do not - is it because they are closed to it? You tried hard to stop it, Willow, and can't, but many people try (not my husband's family admittedly, but my husband does) and don't have any of these kind of experiences.

I dont know why some do and some dont have experiences. I have read in other posts where it is about being "open" to it. And yet I was very closed to it for a long period of time BUT it still occurred. So I dont have an answer.

I have studied creativity and I think there are some connections between creativity and spiritiual activity.But I still dont have a concrete answer. We'll know on the other side...

Hello,

I was reading over the boards and I had to respond to some misguided judgments about Christianity and "spirits"...

Before I continue, I will say that I have read the TERMS OF AGREEMENT. I respect Angela as a friend, and as a professional. I don't agree with everything I see posted on here, but if Christianity is going to be brought into this, then please let me speak from this side of the coin, without saying anything about "sin"... =)

First and FOREMOST, we are all spiritual creatures. YES, there is a spiritual world out there. Ephesians 6:10 says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

As for Christians "being afraid of the unknown"... I couldn't disagree more.

As for any encounters against "spirits", I hold no fear, as I carry the Sword of the SPIRIT -which is the Word of God. The Sword of the Spirit is POWERFUL and it makes the devil and his angels tremble. The Word of God is also a SPIRITUAL thing. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(John 1:1-2)

As Christians we are to TEST all things. For NOT everything that says it is of God, is so. To not test these things, you are placing you and your family in serious danger! Physically and spiritually!

But the actions of those who represent Christianity poorly should not be an excuse for our own behaviors and for our own walk with the Lord.

The "spiritual gifts" mentioned in the New Testament is what the HOLY SPIRIT gives to the BELIEVER ONLY. This is not something given to the unsaved. And these spiritual gifts of the bible have NOTHING to do with talking to dead relatives or angels.

Also, the angels of the bible are God's messengers. They quickly do their business and they are NOT to be worshipped.

When I became saved, I became indwelt with the Holy Spirit. God himself lives within me. And just as there is a real God - the creator of the heavens of the earth, there is ALSO a real devil.

The scriptures says, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1)

Oh yes, the Christian is very acquainted with the spirit world. Don’t let Hollywood fool you.

May we test ALL things in TRUTH.

I'm definitely a burned child when it comes to that.

I'm an ex-Christian who dropped out of church around 15 because a) I couldn't deal with the atrocities and cruelties in the OT anymore, and b) I realized that the nicest people I knew were generally non-Christians. Now, that was then and this is now... I do know some wonderful Christians who are big-hearted and accepting and caring and basically try to emulate Jesus' life and teachings, instead of following religious doctrines.

But unfortunately, I've seen more of the other kind. When I moved from Sedona, AZ, where everyone is a New Ager, to New Jersey, I mentioned to some Christian acquaintances that I was doing Tarot readings. One of them took me aside for a two-hour "peptalk", telling me flat-out that I had a pact with the devil and needed to pray for forgiveness... REALLY HARD. When I said that I actually had a very close and personal relationship with the Creator, she replied that could only be Satan in a God-suit, trying to deceive me. Whatever I said, she would turn it around and use it against me.

Another one of my Christian "friends" lovingly handed me a pamphlet with quotes from Leviticus, stating that everyone engaging in "witchcraft and divination" should be stoned to death. Sweet.

Needless to say that I was incredibly hurt... and incredibly pissed off. I usually live by the motto "live and let live" as long as there's no harm done. But many Christians just can't leave well enough alone, they have to try to convert you and impose their beliefs on you wherever they go. (Thus the hatred towards gays and other people who don't fit their narrow-minded world view.)

Having been born and raised in Germany, where the Christian religion is pretty much the only one around, but where no one is that fanatic, American evangelists scare me to death. I think they're not much better than the Ku-Klux Klan; especially the right-wing fundamentalists and their even tougher brethren, the reconstructionists who would like to turn the US into a theocracy like... um... Iraq, for example, only the Christian version.

What enrages me most is the self-righteousness, hypocrisy and bigotry of these people. For example, just today, I read in the Washington Post that WorldHelp, a missionary group based in Virginia, had planned to put 300 Muslim tsunami orphans in Indonesia into a Christian childrens' home. When the Indonesian government intervened, stating that the children should be raised in their own faith, the group completely withdrew all of their fundraising and aid efforts. Very Christ-like, ain't it?

There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord: (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)

It really doesn’t matter what I say, or what I think. Regardless of what we all believe, Jesus – the Lamb of God is still the creator of all things and He is the King of Kings. According to the Book of Revelations, He is coming VERY VERY SOON. There is no doubt the second coming is imminently close! The war in Iraq is just the beginning of woes. And there is more to come.

His Word is a living thing, and by His Word, we will all be judged. There is no such thing as a perfect Christian. A Christian is a sinner saved by grace. It is folly to base our own walk and responsibilities on the actions (and failures) of others – and this type of reasoning will not hold in the White Throne of Judgment.

It is ONLY by the Holy Spirit that a person can be convicted and changed.

I question the validity of a Christian who practices the occult. (If we say we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: John 1:6)

But the good news is that (The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance – II Peter 3:9)

Thailand and the surrounding regions are 90% + Buddhist. I personally would not withdraw funding due to a confliction of beliefs, but I would make sure the funding was distributed properly for their physical needs. It really grieves me when I read about the children that are suffering. There have been a lot of child abductions going on due to the tragedies and numerous orphans are being sexually abused. These people really need our donations and prayers.

[quote="Texaswriter"It really doesn’t matter what I say, or what I think. Regardless of what we all believe, Jesus – the Lamb of God is still the creator of all things and He is the King of Kings. According to the Book of Revelations, He is coming VERY VERY SOON. There is no doubt the second coming is imminently close! The war in Iraq is just the beginning of woes. And there is more to come. [/quote]

Brief nitpick - I was taught when I was little that God was the creator of all things, including Jesus. Is that not so?

Personally, I'm not a Christian. I believe in God, but I also believe that Jesus was a man. Like Mohammed, the Muslim prophet, like a lot of other very godly people. If Jesus is a man, and God tells us not to worship men, then shouldn't we avoid worshiping Jesus and instead worship the God he came to earth to tell everyone about?

Another problem I had with Christianity when I was young was that my minister said, "All you have to do to be saved is believe in Jesus Christ." If that's all I had to do, then theoretically I could live however I wanted to, but if I just said, "I believe," I'd be forgiven any and all horrible things I'd done just because I believed. It didn't make sense - God will send a bunch of really good, innocent people to hell just because they think differently? But if I live a life of depravity I can go to heaven because I believe in Jesus?

I'm not saying this stuff to be sarcastic or to bash others' beliefs. I have great respect for many Christians, but just like with any religion, there are equally as many hateful Christians as there are good ones, and I find some of the beliefs confusing and contradictory.

And shannara, I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. I wholeheartedly agree with you that some of the fundamentalists in this country are scary. Few of my friends are practicing Christians and the ones who are don't evangelize, thankfully. My husband is a pretty staunch atheist, and I'm agnostic. My mom was disappointed when I "left the flock," but fortunately she hasn't tried to convert either me or my husband.

Hi Andi,

1.) You had asked: <<If Jesus is a man, and God tells us not to worship men, then shouldn't we avoid worshiping Jesus and instead worship the God he came to earth to tell everyone about?>>

***God and Jesus are both one and the same, as Jesus testifies: I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)

***”And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, BELIEVED ON in the world, RECEIVED UP into glory." (1 Timothy 3:16)

2.) You had stated: << my minister said, "All you have to do to be saved is believe in Jesus Christ." If that's all I had to do, then theoretically I could live however I wanted to,>>

****The bible says: If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALT BE SAVED. (Romans 10:9)

*** And Jesus also says: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart, and with ALL thy soul, and with ALL thy mind. (Matthew 22:36-38)

***Jesus also says: If ye love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15)

***Unfortunately, a lot of converted “Christians” think that they have found salvation through lip service. A true repentant heart will not strive to continue in their old life. If the Holy Spirit indwells them, than the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sins and they will seek after those things that which are holy and pleasing to God. Christians are sinners saved by grace.

3.) I do believe that you have brought up these questions with sincerity. It is good that you are searching for answers. There is a doctrinally sound website that addresses all of your questions. www.jesus-is-lord.com And above all, the Holy Bible is our supreme and FINAL authority.


“thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. (Deu 4:29)