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PostPosted: May 20th, 2004, 9:35 am 
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Hiya Nancy,

I ordered Everything Happens For a Reason by Suzane Northrop and it arrived this week. Haven't had a chance to start reading it yet, though.

I know some things are hard to swallow as being part of the grand plan, 9-11 being one of them. If I think about that too hard, I'll start to cry.

Max was 3 days old when 9-11 happened. I had trouble dealing with post-partum depression and the grief the entire nation was experiencing. I kept locking myself in the bathroom so I could cry and not scare the children. It was awful. It kept going on for a couple of weeks before I finally realized that I was trying to juggle both. I recovered quickly and never had to visit the doctor for it, though I'd not have hesitated to be put on anti-depressants if it'd had gone on for more than a couple of months.

Hugs and have a super day!
Ang


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PostPosted: May 20th, 2004, 4:56 pm 
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Hi Ang,

Hope you enjoy Suzane's book. I haven't read it in about a year, so I think I may join you!

I can't imagine how difficult it must have been, trying to process the events of 9/11 and deal with a brand new baby at the same time.

Do you think all those people in the World Trade Center knew before being born this time around that they would die in that manner?


Hugs,
Nancy

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PostPosted: May 20th, 2004, 9:02 pm 
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Joined: February 19th, 2003, 2:52 pm
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Hi everyone,

This is Jennifer Shepherd, the psychic/mystic/astrologer lady who teaches Subconscious Scribes - Using Dreams as Inspiration for Fiction online through WritersWeekly. I can't wait to read Angela's new Spirit Stories book, because she is tapping into something that so many people are experiencing. Every day, as I go about my daily life, I am asked questions about psychic dreams, moments of intuition or synchronicity, or those "gut feelings" that we all seem to have but don't always know how to sort out. I'm always sharing anecdotes about this stuff and think that more and more people are opening up to having metaphysical moments. It's part of the energy of the times we are living in.

Several posters mentioned 9/11 and how it's hard to see those tragedies as part of a Bigger Picture or a Big Plan. I agree with that! It's especially hard when you are prone to having psychic dreams or premonition dreams, as I am. For a period of about three years I was having psychic dreams every week, usually about events or people who would show up in the news shortly thereafter. For instance, I dreamt that Michael J. Fox would be in the news for some reason right before he went public about his Parkinson's Disease. I dreamt about Princess Diana's death and the exact manner and way in which it happened about 12 hours before her passing - only, in the dream, it was ME in the car. Psychic dreams about other people will sometimes seem to happen from YOUR vantage point - it's like you're looking out the eyes of the person who is actually having the experience. Very sad, sometimes. I was also dreaming about silly, inconsequential stuff, like who would call me the next day or who I would bump into, that sort of thing. But I also dreamt about the Columbine tragedies, again from the vantage point of me being in the school with the kids, like I was one of them. Terrible.

But the whole process became TOO MUCH for me to handle after a while. I finally had to have a chat with my angels and spiritual guides. Basically, I said, "I ask that this ability be taken away from me unless I can in some way prevent the tragedy or intervene so that negative outcomes don't happen." I, too, believe in free will, and I've personally witnessed many times when a prophecy or prediction didn't come true, so I know that reality can be somewhat malleable in that regard.

Well, about a week before 9/11 I had a dream in which I was watching TV. I saw a blond, exhausted, distraught-looking woman standing in the background of what appeared to be a newscaster giving some kind of report. It was a busy, frenetic city scene, and people were rushing by her. She was holding up a photograph of someone who had to be a loved one, and she was doing so in this tired, hopeless-yet-still-hopeful way. I had the sense that her loved one was missing for some reason and that she had almost given up hope of finding this person.

When 9/11 happened, remmber all the craziness of that day when people could locate their loved ones? And how even the next day or two, you'd see video footage of people holding up photographs of missing loved ones, while busy New Yorkers rushed by them? I saw this same woman in some of that footage. She was never interviewed on camera, she was just in the background of the scene, just like I'd seen in my dream.

So, even though I didn't dream about the towers or the Pentagon or that lost plane in Pennsylvania, it was if the event was still impressed upon my superconscious in some way.

I do believe that we're all connected, energy-wise. I like to call this connection "The Cosmic Internet," that spiritual web which links us all.

Sorry this turned into such a long post! But I was fascinated by this thread of discussion and wanted to jump in.

Best,
Cosmokid/Jennifer

lipstickmystic@comcast.net


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PostPosted: May 20th, 2004, 10:12 pm 
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Nancy wrote:
Do you think all those people in the World Trade Center knew before being born this time around that they would die in that manner?

Since I believe that all things work together for food...I think so. Then again, is it possible that really bad people can mess up the cosmos and the grand plan? I'm not sure, but I hope not.

Jennifer,
Glad you could pop by! Heaven knows how busy you are!

Everybody, Jennifer didn't mention it but her syndicated column serves something like 6 million readers. Too cool!

I think you're dreams are fascinating, Jennifer. But, I too wouldn't have wanted to have those experiences.

At one time, I toyed with the idea of perhaps really devoting my time to learning mediumship, but I found that the emotional price mediums pay was more than I was willing to give. Soaking up all the negative emotions was not something I enjoyed. Yes, the positive, loving emotions were great, but I couldn't deal with the negatives.

Unfortunately, since I do meditate and I do "connect" with my own loved ones when I can, I have become more intuitive and do still soak up emotions, but only really strong ones.

Week before last, I was in a real funk, feeling just really, really sad about something. When I started crying while just sitting here at my computer, I snapped and realized that something bad was happening and I was picking up on it.

I googled the news and didn't find anything major, so went back to my work. That night, they showed snippets of the footage of the American being beheaded by terrorists. I was so shocked, horrified and saddened by that that I just KNEW that's what had affected me earlier that morning. I may have been picking up on the grief of other Americans who were just then learning of what had happened, but it had not yet hit the major news...online at least.

I thought of a new topic to start tonight, so please click and look for the topic, "Why spirits don't grieve." :)

More hugs!
Angela


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 Post subject: Re: Fantastic!!!
PostPosted: May 21st, 2004, 9:12 am 
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Posts: 106
Guest Writer wrote:
Congratulations, Marie! I'm so happy for you!

You just never know how things will turn out, do you?
May this opportunity be everything you hope it will be!

Hugs,
Nancy

Nancy,
Thanks so much. I'm excited (and a little scared). Going to think positively so it goes well. I appreciate your support.

Hugs, Marie

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PostPosted: May 21st, 2004, 9:15 am 
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Nice to meet you, Cosmo!
I appreciated your long post. Fascinating!

It's weird that I come across your post and you're discussing dreams. Today after a restless night of nightmares, I wondered if they should mean anything to me. Hmmm...
Marie

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PostPosted: May 30th, 2004, 12:45 am 
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Location: Northern Calif.
A few posts back -- in the discussion regarding free will vs. predestination -- someone mentioned how they thought that some decisions that people make of their own free will "mess up the natural outcome of the course of events" (or words to that effect).

I really think that this would be true only if we mere "ant-like mortals" could claim to have even the slightest conception of what a "natural" ("normal, "proper", or "right") outcome of any particular course of events is!

And I don't mean to insult all humankind by saying that -- It's just that (in my personal opinion, mind you) there is absolutely no way that any mere human being living on the planet Earth could possibly begin to comprehend what all the ramifications might be in a situation which could have an endless set of variables!

For one thing, (as a worldwide scientific collective) we can't even agree on the probability nor even the possibility of the existence of other dimensions in space, time or substance.

And, if such "other" places do exist, we have no idea how an outcome that was the result of a completely "free-willed" act on "our side" might effect the "natural"/"normal"/
"right" outcome of events on "their side" (if you see what I mean. . .).

One must ultimately admit that even the minimal possibility of an interdependence -- a "warp and weft", if you will -- of actions & events on a (possibly) infinite amount of levels (dimensions -- or whatever you choose to call these other "planes") renders even the most intelligent -- the most learned -- of us "little ants" totally incapable of having a truly universal viewpoint with regard to this topic.

We are, then, forced to face the possibility that there are logical reasons (with completely constructive and positive aspects) which could serve to justify certain events -- even those which we may consider to be senseless, heinous and horrific!

The basis for an argument in favor of predestination that this train of thought leads to is, I find, unmistakable and, for me, totally maddening!

I'd just as soon disprove that hokey concept entirely! (And it just doesn't "sit well" with us "America-Land-of-the-Free-and-Home-of-the Brave" type-ants AT ALL. . .)

And, yet... there ya go...

Namaste'
jean

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PostPosted: May 30th, 2004, 3:15 am 
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lilfishjean wrote:
A few posts back -- in the discussion regarding free will vs. predestination -- someone mentioned how they thought that some decisions that people make of their own free will "mess up the natural outcome of the course of events" (or words to that effect).



Hi Jean,

In an earlier post, I said, 'I imagine some big spiritual flow chart, with probabilities of things occurring based on the free will of the individuals involved. But the chart is covered in sticky notes, because people keep making decisions that throw the whole thing off track!'

After re-reading my post, I see that my meaning wasn't clear. What I was thinking of was not the big, huge, whole-ball-of-wax macrocosm of all of existence, but the microcosms that are our karmic groups we travel in from lifetime to lifetime.

What triggered this discussion was Sandy's post about her mother's friend running into her ex-daughter-in-law and her grandson at a particular place on a particular day. Within that karmic group, a decision was made - by Sandy - that allowed that meeting to occur when it did.

I don't believe that our every decision based on free will necessarily has global/cosmic impact (although, a single decision can, of course - especially if you happen to be a world leader), but every fiber of my being rejects the idea that everything is predestined.

If it is, what would be the point of existence?

And thank you for your insights, by the way. I love a good philosophical discussion!

Hugs,
Nancy

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PostPosted: May 30th, 2004, 3:05 pm 
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Hi, Nancy!
Very pleased to make your acquaintance!

As you can probably tell already, I, too, love a rousing philosophical discussion!

One point regarding the differenciation between seemingly "minor" decisions/events and "major" ones... If I'm understanding you correctly, you assert (to paraphrase) that a "world leader's" seemingly minor decisions would probably have more "global impact" (my words) than those same seemingly minor decisions made by those of us not in positions of like power. . .

I think most anyone would agree with that statement. And I would, too, on a generally superficial level. . . But, it is this point that gets to the crux of what I was saying before -- although I am loathe to make any points in favor of predestination, because, as I said, personally, I would wish that most any other philosophy one could name were a truer one. . . :? ):

My point is this:
"We cannot know the extent of the impact (or lack of it) of seemingly minor decisions made by relatively minor players on our plane of existence simply because we are not aware -- nor COULD we be -- of all of the possible variables involved in the tide of events on all possible levels. . ."

And not only because we have no idea of how what WE do (on this plane) impacts (or doesn't) any other stream of events on any other possible plane (although, that is a valid observation, I feel) -- there is also the matter of the "time factor" here in our OWN dimension that should be taken into consideration. . .

The further back in time that a seemingly minor decision is made by an apparently minor player, the greater potential that decision has to impact the ultimate outcome of a relatively larger and "more important" scheme of events. The larger the interval of time between the act and the outcome of the event -- the more far-reaching its impact . . .

Ray Bradbury expressed this concept very well in a short story of his, where, in the future, "big game hunters" utilize a "time machine" to go into any era of the past to hunt any type of game they wish.

Of course, most of the "serious" hunters want to bag a T-Rex. The operators of the time machine are fully aware of the sort of "domino effect" that an act (done in some far-distant past) could have on their own "present"; so, they take all precautions to assure that only animals that are going to die soon anyway (within a very narrow timespan) are chosen to be hunted, that an "elevated" pathway is provided to keep people from accidentally "altering some ameobas timeline" by trapsing through the underbrush, and all spent shells, casings, etc. are retreived after the shoot to make certain that no "anomolies" occur which could upset the course of evolution .

In the story, however, one hunter returns from his kill to find everything in his "present' subtly changed -- for the worse, I might add. It is only in the locker room -- while changing his clothes -- that he notices a solitary, tiny butterfly has been crushed in the tread of his boot when he had happened to fall off the elevated walkway (only for a brief second before he managed to scramble right back up onto it). . .

The moral of the story (Bradbury was always big on those...) being that seemingly minor acts/decisions/choices made by seemingly "minor players", can have profound and lasting effects upon the outcomes of major events in the greater scheme of things -- ESPECIALLY if those actions are in the distant past. And, since every single moment (at some point in the future) will be a part of the "distant past", one could argue that when a "greater scheme of events" has reached the end of the total time period necessary to "play it out" to its complete conclusion, historically-speaking, there could be no such things as "minor acts by minor players" !

I find it an interesting point to ponder. . .

Namaste'
jean

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 Post subject: Trippy
PostPosted: May 30th, 2004, 3:55 pm 
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The philsophical outcomes could blow all your brain cells if you thought about it. I trust in a Higher Power that things turn out how they should or will eventually turn out how they should. Its alot easier to think that someone bigger and more Soverign than I can direct the world in ways that the outcomes are what I need to learn when I need to learn them. In that way, we can live freely watching for guidance and how it all turns out. It's a trippy thing to watch..but again, that's what I named this threat--TRIPPY! Willow (alias Sandy)


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 Post subject: Trippy
PostPosted: May 31st, 2004, 2:15 am 
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I prefer to think of it as "mental calisthenics" .... ;o)

Namaste'
jean

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PostPosted: May 31st, 2004, 5:15 am 
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Glad to meet you, too, Jean!

Ah, the old time travel "prime directive" -- don't change anything in the past because it will alter the future.

That is the ultimate argument against predestination! If it's possible for the future to be changed, then it would be IMpossible for the future to be preordained.

But let me get back to the question I asked before: If everything IS predestined, then what is the point of our existence?

I know why we're here if free will rules. We're here to hone our souls to a level of perfection that will allow us to reunite with our Creator, by using our free will to make the right choices in the karmic tests we face. And that goal may take many, many lifetimes to achieve.

However, if all we're doing is playing out some script, with the ending already written, what would be the purpose of that?

-- Nancy

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PostPosted: May 31st, 2004, 5:21 am 
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Sandy,

I'm pretty comfortable with my beliefs at this stage of my life, but I do realize that until I get to the other side, I won't have all the answers -- and maybe not even then!

In the meantime, as Jean said, it keeps the ol' brain cells exercised thinking about the larger questions of existence. ;-)

-- Nancy

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 Post subject: Preordained?
PostPosted: May 31st, 2004, 1:48 pm 
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I dunno, Nancy....

(Just to play devil's advocate -- a role I've practically been "type cast" for ... ;o) )

To say that the argument that says: "Changing the events of the past would change the future (or present) of those events." is the ultimate argument AGAINST predestination, I feel, is a bit premature.... BECAUSE:


What if it was "preordained" that the "first" timeline was supposed to be changed?

:lol:

hee-hee
jean

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 Post subject: Re: Preordained?
PostPosted: May 31st, 2004, 6:24 pm 
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lilfishjean wrote:
What if it was "preordained" that the "first" timeline was supposed to be changed?




Then I would say God had wayyyyy too much time on his/her hands! ;-)

-- Nancy

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