Statements appearing in these forums represent the opinions of the authors
of each post, not the opinion of WritersWeekly.com and/or BookLocker.com.
It is currently April 20th, 2014, 5:04 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 393 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 27  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: PUBLISH AMERICA
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 4:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2004, 7:49 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Wisconsin
Haru wrote:
I checked the BBB and there are NO OUTSTANDING adverse reports on their boards at this time. So I'm wondering if there are simply a few people out there who have been unfortunate in their dealings with Publish America and are "piling it on" as it were? I mean, I know a number of professionals in the SF field, and a few of them have had their share of horror stories with the big guns.

As to publishing with the top agencies - as an SF writer it's next to impossible unless you happen to know someone (or so it feels).. They seem to be looking for such wierd and off-base themes from their new writers whereas I lean towards the more traditional --- let's write a GOOD story with an interesting plot. No slash, no gore, no depressing endings, no sex triads. That's all. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be good enough for the top agencies, yet everyone who has read RUNE is clamouring for RING (the sequel). Although most of the copies were purchased by friends, many of them don't generally read SF. In fact, even their family members have read the story AND they 've passed it on. On top of that, Actor/Author Michael Sheard, who hates SF as a rule (his words) absolutely loved my novel. He took it on set with him and wants to know when to expect RING.


The publishers buy what the public buys. You can write well and come up with a great story but if it doesn't interest the public enough, it won't sell. And in the SF industry there is a glut of "traditional" stories out there. Publishers aren't going to risk bringing in a new writer who lacks a proven track record for the generic, traditional stuff. They have stables of established writers who can do that and whose names alone are enough to sell. If you want to break in, you'll have to come up with something new and utterly compelling. What would that be? You'd have to read and read and read in your targeted market area to determine what's out there and identify any trends. It's basic market research.

Let me give you a little reality check with regard to "fans."

People you know will almost never be honest with you if they don't like your writing. It's kind of like seeing someone you know or work with who just got a really bad haircut but doesn't seem to know it. Are you going to tell them the truth or come up with something vaguely nice to say instead?

I had 3 novels published the traditional way in the late 90s. Each one sold between 60,000 and 100,000 copies. I had well over a hundred letters and emails from people I didn't know praising my work. I think it's safe to say I have a few fans out there.

I self-published a POD book this summer and so far the sales have been trickling. I've sold a little over 50 books in the 2 months since the title became available and almost all of those have been to people I know in one way or another. I have sent out a dozen copies for review. So far I've gotten one. Most folks say they simply don't review self-published books. I've contacted several bookstores to try to set up author signings, talks, or even just get the book stocked on their shelves. So far, the only way any of them will do so is if I leave the books there on consignment.

So decide what your goals are. If they include producing an overpriced book for little or no money out of your own pocket, a book that will likely only sell a handful of copies to friends and family, then PA might be the right choice for you.

Beth

_________________
Beth Amos
www.bethamos.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2004, 7:49 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Wisconsin
To those of you who are questioning the naysayers for self-publishing in general and PA in particular, I think the main issue for anyone trying to decide if they want to go this route is what your ultimate goal is.

If you want to become known as a writer, have your work read by thousands of people, build a career as a writer, and be able to see your work in bookstores around the country/world, then self-publishing or going through PA is NOT a good choice.

If all you want is to see your name on a cover and have a book available for sale that some of your friends and family can buy (assuming they buy from you or over the Internet, because few if any stores will stock your book unless you put them there on consignment) then self-publishing may be just fine.

Beth

_________________
Beth Amos
www.bethamos.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 4:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
Stuffedtoy wrote:
Let me put it another way... The book is in print- you yourself have the opportunity to purchase it and resell it and make a profit. Something you could not do if the book was not published. As far as I can see... PA has done what they have promised to do.

Are you aware that you could have published the book yourself and sell the book much cheaper and make a (bigger) profit?

Personally I feel that it's an author's job to help sell the book, but not individual copies of the book. An author should do interviews, book signings or whatever the publicity department thinks would help sell the book. But having an author buy hundreds of copies and then try to sell them to people is pathetic. Not only does it make the writer look pitiful, but it makes the publisher look unprofessional.

Quote:
Let us slam self publishers- if we feel that this is along the same lines as PA. But.. dang.. those poor folks had to pay for their books to be in print. See what I'm getting at? If there is a sound reason for authors not to use PA- then sound out the alarms, but use justified reasons. Not just what you feel to be so because they publish too many books and allow the writer to tell the story the way they want it told.

Sorry, but I'm Swedish, we're not really concerned about whether a person self-published or not, as long as the book is good and available. People who self-publish do so for many reason--some because their books sucks, of course, but some because the books are too specific to appeal top a large audience, or because it's too "out there" or what have you.

Quote:
Another thing is the reading time. It took about 2-3 months before I received my edited copy. I usually go through my stuff in 2 days. (Editing.) A lot of other publishers state that you will hear something in 3 months. If I can edit a 100,000 word book in 2-3 days, that would mean that I could do about 3 a week, though most books are not that long.

Going over something in 2-3 days is not editing, it's spellchecking. Editing means you (and your editor) polish your ms, make sure the plot is tight and the characters stand out, along with a bit of re-writing and so on. The copyeditor checks spelling and fixes grammar and stuff like that.

Quote:
I originally came here for information... Where is it? I've heard different opinions, but nothing earth shattering yet.

First of all, I have no interest in slamming a publisher that is meant for American writers, since I'm Swedish (and more interested in writing scripts than books, and perhaps opening my own publishing house one day). Obviously, they have never rejected me, I do not have friends who were rejected by them--basically they do not touch my life in any way. I’m just telling you the raw facts, and maybe you’ll accept them when they’re coming from someone who is not a PA-victim or active adversary.

- They will not promote you. This means they don't care whether you do well or not. Thus, they are not depending on your book to sell to the general public. Their promotion is aimed at their authors, urging them to buy more books "At this lovely 50% discount because we're celebrating [insert reason here]!" They will not send catalogues to stores, so the stores won't know you and your books exists unless you go there and tell them (easy enough when it comes to your local store, but not exactly possible on a larger scale). Ask yourself why PA would willingly put the burden of promotion on an author who has probably not had any training when it comes to promoting.

- They have a no-returns policy. This means that you have to buy books and supply stores with them if you want to see your books in a real brick and mortar store. Who makes money? PA. Who is left hoping that the book will sell in the bookstore because you just spent thousands of dollars on buying a few hundred copies? YOU. You most likely won’t make much of a profit, because you have to offer the bookstores a discount, and you have to take back the books that didn’t sell and they’ll only give you money for the books that did sell. Does this seem fair to you? Is it moral? Real publishers will usually offer a constant author discount to you, the author, but you are not allowed to resell the books you purchase--because selling your book to people is how publishers make a profit, not by selling your book to you.

- The covers are ugly. There, I said it. Of all the PA covers I've seen, only three have been acceptable. The rest is cheap photoshopped crap. I could make much better covers, and I'm not even all that brilliant with photoshop.

- PA does not care about its authors. If you question them they either ignore you or attack you verbally.

- PA is a potentially permanent stain. Personally, I would not publish a PA author's second book for fear of giving the PA book free publicity and thereby making money for PA. It's harsh, I know. If the author managed to get out of the contract with PA and the book was no longer being sold, it’d be a different situation.

- PA is unprofessional. Look at the LaVerne Ross drama to get a taste of what you might be getting into. Her book had a picture on Orlando Bloom on the cover--but no one asked for Orlando Bloom's permission, or the permission of whoever had taken the picture (I think it was a screencap from LOTRs or something) before they used it. No one told her it was illegal. Her publisher most likely didn’t even look at the cover, because they deal with so many every day.

- Every PA books sells about 75-200 copies. That’s it. The last debut-novel I read had already sold 75 000 copies.

- Very few people will be willing to review your book.

If you don't think those things are earth-shattering, then you are seriously not ready to be published.

Haru wrote:
Saw at another site that Barnes and Noble supposedly stated they don't/won't carry PA novels. Since their site doesn't have a "Search by Publisher", I decided to check out Indigo/Chapters' site in Canada for PA books. I found almost 200 listed on their database and in their stores. I wrote down a random sampling of titles and ISBN, then went back to B&N. Guess what? Surprise, surprise! I found every single last one of those titles!

A hell of a lot of books are listed on B&N's online store. It's not exactly hard to get there, or on any of the other bookstores' sites. When your book is POD it's fine for the stores to let your customers place and order it through their site, but they won't actually put it on their shelves--where most of the books are sold--unless you can offer a returns policy.

It is quite possible to get your books onto the shelves of your local B&N, provided you're friends with the manager, or you buy your own books and offer the B&N store you're targeting a return through you. And that's your financial arse on the line. PA doesn't care. And you know what, 200 books out of 6000 authors (or whatever number PA is claiming nowadays) is pathetic. Being in one store out of thousand does not constitute success--it just means 200 authors bought a few dozen books each and cried at the manager's feet until he/she agreed to stock them. Plus, there are probably some books left over from when PA authors, getting desperate, went and ordered a bunch of books through their local bookstore and then failed to show up to collect the books, leaving the store with a bunch of un-returnable books they had to sell.

Quote:
But I can tell you this about PA- They publish books, and some are rejected- most are not. And there is no feeling -like the feeling that an Author goes through, when they hold their first published copy of their book in their hands. It's a chance that they may never experience if they keep wasting their time with other publishers.

They do not publish books. They print them and slap a boring cover on it. No one outside PA is going to consider your book a real book if you go with PA.

As for most being rejected, I'm sure you've heard about how they accepted a book which was just thirty pages of text repeated over and over again. How does that make you feel about your writing, knowing you were accepted alongside thirty pages repeated over and over again?

This whole "the important thing is that you're published" thing makes me physically hurt.

Quote:
If you have invested nothing- then you have nothing to lose.

Except all your hard work, your pride and YOUR BOOK.

Quote:
If there is a breach in the contract, it is not that difficult to get your rights back, and wait a minute... isn't it our responsibility to copyright our material?

You are so not ready to be published. Please, please, please do some research. For one, people who have tried to get their copyright back are ignored. PA turns into a three-year-old kid and refuses to accept correspondence, even from lawyers. And that’s another thing, lawyers cost money. A lot of it. Getting PA and online sites to stop selling your books a whole other battle. Aside from that, yes the copyright is yours, but I don't see what that has to do with all of this. By signing the contract you give PA the right to publish your book, you can't stop them just because you've got the copyright--the only way you can stop them is by getting out of the contract.

Quote:
One last thing... I don't pay full price for my book. As a vendor I get 50% off- so... if my book sells for 16.95 from PA- I pay 8.50- can I not sell my book for around $13? I have made a profit.

That’s funny, because a real publisher will give you the same discount—all of the time, not just for your first purchase and “special occasions”. Real publishers will usually give you ten author copies (unless they’re really small and can’t afford it) for free. They won’t let you act as “vendor”, because it’s not your job. Writers write, publishers publish, sellers sell. It’s not that complicated. You are not supposed to buy your own books and sell that way.

Listen to yourself. You’re basically saying that the only way people are going to be able to buy your book at a reasonable price is if you buy the book yourself and then resell it. Does that sound honest to you? You have to ask yourself why your publisher would do that to you, why they’d rather sell the books to you than the readers.

I’m sure you’ll make a profit. If you manage to get a bookstore which has thousands, millions, of books to chose from to stock your book. Be prepared though, because any books that don’t sell are your responsibility. You only get money for the books the store manages to sell. You might want to ask whatever store you peddle your book to not to rip off the covers before they send the un-sold books back for you, so you can try selling the books to someone else and at least break even.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 4:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 23rd, 2004, 7:00 pm
Posts: 112
I have been published by a major house in New York and by PublishAmerica. I also have just finished a third nonfiction book under contract by a trade publisher.

Before I forget, Haru if you want to know how PublishAmerica feels about science fiction writers go to
http://www.authorsmarket.net/experts.htm
This website is owned by PublishAmerica
Scroll down the page to
"A second caveat is that science-fiction and fantasy writers have it easier. It's unfair, but such is life. As a rule of thumb, the quality bar for sci-fi and fantasy is a lot lower than for all other fiction."

It seems PA doesn't have a lot of respect for science fiction writers.

The problem with PublishAmerica is that they tout themselves as a traditional publisher and they are not.

Here’s why:

PA does not offer standard discounts to wholesalers, distributors, or bookstores. Standard discounts are from 50% to 60% of retail price.

Retail prices of PublishAmerica books are much higher than normal. PA Trade paperbacks range from $18.95 to $24.95 depending on the number of pages. These prices are comparable to hardcover prices from traditional publishers.

PA does not accept returns.

Standard discounts, reasonable prices and accepting returns are important if books are to be sold in bricks and mortar bookstores. PA says their books are available in brick and mortar bookstores but what they mean is that you can order a PA book in the store, NOT that PA books are on the shelves.

PA does not offer industry standard payment terms, they require books to be paid for prior to delivery. Industry standard demands a 60 to 90 days payment cycle. In other words PA would have to pay their printer to print the books and then not receive payment for those books from the distributor or bookstore for another 60 to 90 days.

With an order of say a 1000 copies of one title (not unusual at all for a traditional publisher) PA would have to pay the printer $3.00 to $5.00 per book which translates to $3000 to $5000, and then wait for the payment from the bookstore. Even though there would be substantial cash generated from bookstore sales PublishAmerica doesn’t want them because of the immediate cash outflow.

Sales to non bookstores, such as grocery stores, department stores, airport stores, drugstores etc. are limited by the same factors as the high prices, nonreturn policy and nonstandard payment terms, so PA books aren’t found at those retail sites either.

PA does not offer a discount at amazon.com and of the 5,000 PA books listed at amazon.com only six offer any kind of discount. Amazon customers expect a discount. Several online booksellers like Powells increase the already inflated PA book price.

PublishAmerica has no sales reps and no catalog. This is important because the buyers for chains and independents both depend on the publisher’s reps and catalog to determine their orders. The chains make the buying decision at the corporate level and while a local store manager can order a book for a customer, they have to get any store order approved by corporate. The chains do not buy Publish On Demand books for stocking on their shelves, and they consider PublishAmerica to be a Publish On Demand publisher.

PublishAmerica does not attend the premier publishing industry trade show, BookExpo America (BEA). Books published by PA are not exposed to the thousands of independent bookstore buyers who attend BEA. Barnes and Noble had their district manager meeting at BEA. Book reviewers for major publications attend BEA. PA in their wisdom does not.

PublishAmerica accepts nearly any manuscript. There is documentation that they accepted a 300 page manuscript that was the same 30 pages over and over again. To be accepted by PublishAmerica means nothing in the publishing industry. It does not enhance your credibility as an author. It does not help establish your reputation, It does not make it easier to get a second book published. It does nothing.

PublishAmerica is rude and condescending to their authors who ask questions or disagree with them.

I didn't sign the contract with PA with the idea that my books would be refused to be stocked by Borders and Barnes and Nobles unless I paid for them first and placed the books in the store on consignment.


PublishAmerica did no, NO, marketing or publicity for our book.

An author does not have the responsibility to place their books in bookstores. An author should not have to risk their own money to buy books to resell them. Yes, authors do have a responsibility to assist in the marketing of their book, but not shoulder the entire responsibility.

Being published by PublishAmerica is worse than not being published at all. I should know they published our book and I regret it. I would NEVER have signed the contract if PublishAmerica had been straightforward on their website.

Dee Power
http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com

_________________
Co-author of "The Making of a Bestseller: Success Stories from Authors and the Agents, Editors and Booksellers Behind Them,"
http://www.BrianHillAndDeePower.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 6:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 9:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Victoria, BC
Here's my experience on standing in a bookstore with other SF fans. On the average, the bulk of the novels being purchased are bought by the 16 - 19 year old, primarily male population. By the time these people reach 26 they have run the gambit of the stuff that is out there and are looking for 'better material' to read.

The adult market (30 and up) generally stand in front of that shelves looking disgusted with what many of them refer to as garbage. I've had enough conversations with my fellow readers to hear this. Most of us fall back on Norton, McCaffrey, Moon, Silverberg, Lackey, Brin and Barnes. THEY write --- dare I say this --- traditional SF stories. Yes, I know Steve Barnes also produces cyber-punk, but not quite as much.

So we have a self-perpetuating adolescent mentally out there with oodles of cash to throw out on books with thread-bare plots, threesome sex hero/heroines who never seem to learn anything during the course of the story, and with endings that either come far too quickly leaving all sorts of unanswered questions or that carry on ad infinitum.

I've even spoken to a couple of friends who USED to produce book covers. Now they primarily paint for galleries. The reason quoted to me: they're fed up with the trash the publishing houses are producing! If the artists feel that way, you can understand how fed up I am with trying to sell my work to them. And, incidentally, Michael Sheard is a professional author and actor who calls 'a spade a spade'. He hates SF even though he works in the field off and on, and once told me he never reads it. Even so I took a chance. I sent him a copy of RUNE. He liked it so much he took it on set with him and told me he can't wait to see the sequel. Oh, and Andre likes it, too. Unfortunately since she broke her leg this spring she's still convalescing and hasn't been able to send me a review.

Back to you.

_________________
Member: Assoc Science Fiction/Fantasy Artists
From the desk of a trained quiller


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Haru
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 6:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 2:21 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Houston, Texas
Perhaps your book isn't as good as you think it is. Is your goal to earn a lot of money and get famous? Or is your goal to be read by lots of people?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: About the BBB
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 7:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 4th, 2004, 8:22 pm
Posts: 117
Location: http://anotherealm.com/prededitors
Most BBB offices do not consider a business to be a predator if all complaints are resolved. Consequently, the few writers who have written complaints to the BBB have had their contracts terminated so that they no longer possessed a cause for complaint. In most of those instances, the reversion rights contract required the writer to state that the dispute was settled amicably. That left the BBB with no recourse but to consider the dispute resolved. Thus, PA maintained its treasured status with the BBB so that if any new writers happened to check on PA first through the BBB, there would be only a clean report.

The only suggestion I have for any PA writers who are offered a reversion contract is to say no to the version with the gag provisions. If PA wants to rid itself of you, make them offer the reversion that doesn't have a gag order.

If you do accept the version with the gag order, keep an eye on PA and its forum. That gag of theirs cuts both ways. If PA allows anyone to make harmful statements about you on their website, then you have grounds to take them to court or to at least make a new complaint to the BBB. Only this time, you'd be well within your rights to show the contract as it would be necessary in order to prove that PA violated it. Only this time, PA will be without a way of whitewashing your complaint.

By the way, the reversion states that you can't show it to others. That brings up a significant hitch in getting your rights back. If you can't show the reversion to an agent or publisher, then how are you going to convince them that you actually have your rights back in order to sell it to a better publisher? Consequently, the reversion isn't worth the paper it's written on.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 9:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
Haru, just looking through the browsing-chapter of your book, I've spotted several classic mistakes--having the book start with a birth, using fake-sounding names, information-overload, the sword-thing is very Belgariad-ish (copying Eddings has been done to death), there's the omg-we're-aliens bit, a relative betraying the rightful king, copious use of uncommon letters, the long-lost heir, royal baby being set out in the woods and found by Kind Peasant and so on. There's a difference between traditional/classic and cliché. I don't want to insult you, but frankly I'm not surprised that this wasn't published by a traditional publisher. If you were a publisher, would you go with yet another "Heir to the throne is raised by peasants and falls in love with girl who turns out to be an alien. And there's a war. And a magic sword"-story, or one with a #### threesome rocking around the galaxy?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Publish America Debate
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 9:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 9:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Victoria, BC
Okay. Up to now I've been playing something of a "devil's advocate" with regards to Publish America. Here are two of three responses I've received back from SFWA members -- for the uninformed that is Science Fiction Writers of America, the guild that represents member SF authors.

Richard: Definitely check this out. I can't speak from experience about Publish
America but I have heard much of the same negative feedback about them that
you have. Start at SFWA's "Writers Beware" page, which has links to a lot of
information on potentially bad publishing experiences. There's a link to the
National Writer's Union "Alert" page and much more. Check these folks out
very carefully. Even if they're working "within the law" and technically not
a scam operation, they still may not be the best fit for you and your work.
If you check out the lists of new releases in Locus or the Chronicle, you'll
notice that you don't see many Publish America books listed there. It
doesn't seem like they're treated very well in the field. That you _could_
be a problem if/when you want to move on to another publisher later on.
My day job is in journalism, where the byword for anything is (or should
be) "check it out."

Cherry: I know of a couple of authors that have published with them.... and so far no royalties, no reviews, and no publicity or promotion.... ... thus... no sales (except by friends who know about it).

As for this being held against getting published by the NY people.... it won't happen with a NY place picking this book up for mass paperback... but it is no different from any of the other places that do this kind of publishing. NY does not consider being published by them as actually being published.

You can see that they don't change the contract....

I'm still waiting to see what Adrienne has to say so I can add it here. From my perspective, comments by the uninvolved professionals are probably the most important. In most aspects of the above PA is much like iUniverse (who carry my first novel), with the exception that iUniverse is upfront about what they do and don't do, and that the author is responsible for promoting their own work. Although, last year iUniverse was at TorCon WorldCon with a wide sampling of works by the SF authors they carry (mine wasn't out yet).

_________________
Member: Assoc Science Fiction/Fantasy Artists
From the desk of a trained quiller


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: HALF A RUNE
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 9:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 9:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Victoria, BC
Well, YOU may not like it, however, there are a slowly growing group of people who are picking up my book on recommendation by others who have already read it. Not ONE of these perfect strangers half way across the country have complained about 'cliches'. ALL of them want to read the sequel.

As to 'doing Eddings to death' --- I don't read Eddings. I glanced at his first novel and couldn't get through even one chapter. Sorry.

The sword isn't a 'magic' sword --- which you would discover if you read the novel. As I said above, I find it strange that I get picked on for being 'cliche' when someone of Andre Norton's calibre thoroughly enjoys my work. She's even read the second draft of another novel of mine, RHIAN, KING'S COUSIN and thought it should be in print.

_________________
Member: Assoc Science Fiction/Fantasy Artists
From the desk of a trained quiller


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 10th, 2004, 11:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 11:02 am
Posts: 51
I'm not trying to bash you or your book, I'm just trying to explain that your work might have been rejected because it's too common, and not because editors are perverse bastards with no taste who cater only to the porn-loving minds of teenage boys.

I don't care about how giddy Andre Norton got when she read your work. If she thinks your book is so fantastic, why hasn't she mentioned you to an agent, or a publisher? You'd think agents and publishers would be all over themselves to snatch up an ms Andre Norton enjoys.

Fact is that you've used a myriad of clichés, and nothing changes that. Accept it. I know it's nice telling yourself that the problem lies with others--editors, readers, the business--it saves you a lot of editing and re-writes, but in the end it's not going to help you produce a good story. I'm just trying to give you a bit of advice, because you're not a bad writer, just a bit too wordy and slow (and you might want to work on accepting criticism), but you're not going to get anywhere if you insist on recycling storylines that were considered old fifty years ago. It's not a crappy book, it's just that it's not good either. And you're not going to change my mind by telling me about all the people who like your book and think it's original, when I can see for myself that it's not (you are aware that one can read the whole thing at iuniverse, right?) I find it strange that you attack what you consider bad sf, and the people who publish it, but have such a hard time taking criticism yourself. Have you ever wondered if maybe your anger and disdain might be evident in your query and cover letters?

And as for the sword: it changed colours, had "star" in its name and can only be touched by the rightful heir. That's not exactly scientific. As for not reading Eddings, you should give him a try. He may not be a genius, but his books are similar to yours (young boy who is the rightful heir to the throne, meant to wield the magic sword with the magic orb, which lights up whenever a member of the family touches it and so on) and it has no #### threesomes or such in it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: RESPONSE TO LAST
PostPosted: September 11th, 2004, 12:14 am 
Offline

Joined: September 9th, 2004, 9:10 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Victoria, BC
I don't mean to sound like I'm "up in arms" about what you've said. I sent Andre a copy of RUNE, as I stated earlier. If you had read my previous post you would have noted I mentioned she is convalescing from an extremely nasty fall and is unable to send me a review at this time. She may be over 50 --- there's nothing wrong with that. So am I.

What I'm trying to say is, perhaps the middle-age readers are getting jaded with the WOW, ORIGINAL, FANTASTIC production line. I know when I cruise through the Victoria Second-hand bookstores I see a lot of Eddings, Jordan, Dragonlance and the like on the shelves and extremely little of the authors I've mentioned: McCaffrey, Norton, Moon, etc. I also see a lot of middle age readers picking out the 'tried and true' authors as stated. Perhaps that's just Victoria, but I also know from talking to them that a lot are tourists. You might also be interested to know that a couple from Kent, England bought RUNE after reading the back cover. They left the bookstore eager to read it and promised to e-mail me.

What you posted earlier is not something I haven't heard before. On a final note, a number of those WOW books on the shelves also have 'cliche' phrases throughout and, I might add, the so-called cliche theme. Personally I enjoy employing the John Joseph Carptener method of story building. You still need to read the novel to understand what Hafron REALLY is --- and it has nothing to do with magic. Enough said. We're WAY off the topic of whether or not to publish with PA.

Back to the rest of you. I'm out of here. Good night.

_________________
Member: Assoc Science Fiction/Fantasy Artists
From the desk of a trained quiller


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: September 11th, 2004, 7:08 am 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2004, 10:08 am
Posts: 50
First let me start off with this... (I'm passive this morning)
I like my book cover! I also like a lot of the other book covers I've seen. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder- I guess.
Secondly... (Hard to keep up with all of the names- sorry)
Spell checking takes me about 20 minutes. When I edit- things change! But I do it more than once. Everytime I submit something, I edit, so it's pretty safe to say that each book could go through editing at 'least' six times. By that time, spelling is no longer an issue.

It appears that we are on the attack. This is not the place for unsolicited reviews of one's work. I personally have been open to helpful hints- which is why I often try to get other readers to go over the work. Not because I want them to tell me that "it's good" but because I want them to look for error's and things that might bore the reader (Or shock- which ever)
All writers would prefer that a well known publishing company would accept their work, and everyone has their own reasons for writing and getting it published. It is my other world- I have completed 8 manuscripts, bearing from 90,000- 150,000 words. Most of my time is consumed with story lines- I even think of them in the shower, and I don't stick with one subject. I write horror, romance, suspense... what ever grabs me at the time. So what do I do with all this stuff? My motive??? (Shrugging) It's not that I want to be well known/famous- I'm using a pen name to keep my identity a mystery, and the idea of becomming wealthy, would be great- but I was making nothing on it before I decided to get it published and would make just as much if I decided to leave it on the disc. So I prefer to take the chance, and now that I have committed myself to the project, I will do all that I can to see that it is at least somewhat successful.
Beth has visited our website- which lately has added about 33 books- anyone interested in adding their work is welcome to do so- but you would need to be able to supply a copy of your book if it is sold. I make no profit off the books. That is not my goal.
http://heavenlytrinkets.com/ (Authors sign up) Must register.
I am in the process of looking for a building for my giftshop/bookstore. I will be open for signings... And guess what... I won't need a return policy.
It's a tough market- I'm aware of that and I have only begun, but I love what I do and I aam, dedicated. That makes me a writer. That's why I write. What other poeple think about my work is important if it is out there- which is why it took me this long (since 92) to get busy with something other than just writing it. Before it was my work to criticize and pick to death- now there are others to consider, and I care if someone likes it- or doesn't, but it's not going to make me stop writing. (well... maybe for a day or two while I fight off depression) What we write is what we give birth to. Sometimes our spawns are a little -imperfect- other times they're a masterpiece- though I am much too humble to be that sure. On the issue... PA is not the best publisher for all of the reasons stated,
but truthfully I am not so sure that I believe the story about pasting several pages over and over again- there are members on the PA board that are authors who have had their work rejected. (Often asking for help from the other writers) If this is the case then that editor should be fired! I called PA the other day- spoke with an actual person, and she was very nice and helpful. The editors that I have had have been quick to respond to me when I E mail them, though the support team is a bit slow. I've learned that for the quickest response, I always go through the editor directly. (ususally it's the same day) After the editing was done, I got to go over it and make changes. On the second round, I made changes again (which technically is not allowed, but was no problem) I am playing a wait and see game. And as I said earlier, everyone who writes would like to be accepted by a well known company- but few are, and so what if they look down on me for getting published with PA- they did anyway- so I've lost nothing there.
My first "story" was written when I was in 5th grade- many years between then and now. Now I'm in the world of big boys and big toys and a whole lot of critics.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: September 11th, 2004, 7:17 am 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2004, 10:08 am
Posts: 50
Before someone says 'you need to learn to spell' I was having some trouble with the last posting where the words were running into each other. Space bar was erasing. So glitches must be excused


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Yeah, right
PostPosted: September 11th, 2004, 9:59 am 
Offline

Joined: September 4th, 2004, 8:22 pm
Posts: 117
Location: http://anotherealm.com/prededitors
Stuffedtoy, early in PA's history, some of their first writers entered a multitude of chat rooms to proclaim their expertise in publishing despite the fact that they hadn't seen their book even out of the press or that it was only their first book. When those facts came out in conversations, the reaction was predictable, especially from those who had several books out in the stores.

As more and more writers at PA found themselves with books in hand, but none in the actual stores, some came up with the stupidly brilliant idea of ordering their books at the brick-and-mortar stores so that the bookstore would then have a copy on the shelves because the PA authors advised each other in their forum not to show up to actually pay for the book. It took relatively little time for the bookstores to compare notes and discover what was happening. Consequently, they refused orders without prepayment and applied that wisdom to all print-on-demand publishers. That, of course, ingratiated PA and its authors with even more authors from other publishing houses.

Then there is the continuous influx of PA trolls who enter other forums and extoll the virtues of PA while making the same false claims that are on PA's website. All of their authors are happy except one or two. Those few were going to be disappointed anyway because they didn't want to promote themselves. Yada, yada, yada.

On top of that, PA has deliberately libeled other writers who spoke out against the conditions at PA or explained the difference between what PA does and what other publishers do. PA has even purchased the domain names for a trademark that PA doesn't own or have the right to use.

So yes, if it feels like you're under attack, you can thank PA for that. On top of that, it's not the author's responsibility to arrange reviews. Legitimate publishers do that for their writers. Besides, ask yourself these questions. How would the reviewers know about your book to begin with if the publishers didn't send copies to legitimate reviewers? How would the reviewers even know the names of any new authors if the publishers didn't send copies of books by new writers to legitimate reviewers? THAT is why it is supposed to be the publisher's responsibility to arrange reviews. Then ask yourself one more question. Because of your newness to writing, how are you supposed to know who's a legitimate reviewer? Again, the publishers are the ones who would know because a successful publisher that has put out more than one book has experience for guidance in that.

By the way, the same reasons apply to copyrights. Authors, especially first time authors, generally don't have any familiarity with copyright forms. Legitimate publishers want the copyright to be properly handled so that they won't be surprised in court should they have to defend your copyright. Consequently, legitimate publishers prefer to handle the copyright application in the author's name because they can afford to have a staff member become knowledgeable about the copyright registration process and thus assure that it will always be registered properly. They even pay the copyright fee for the author.

In your case, having your own giftshop/bookstore is an advantage. In fact, that is one of the few situations where having your books published by PA can be an advantage. You won't have to compete with other books for space. Nor will you have to compete with those on price since you can set the price on all books you carry. You just might make it under those circumstances. However, once a book is on the shelf, a review isn't of much use since most readers don't look around for reviews before looking through the books on the shelves. They PICK up the books and browse. They SELECT by which books seem to offer what they're seeking. So, why bother with a review at this stage?

One more thing I'd like to add. PA actually did accept a manuscript that consisted of thirty pages repeated over and over.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 393 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ... 27  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group