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PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 12:48 pm 
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Joined: January 3rd, 2003, 5:35 pm
Posts: 160
Hi Everyone,

This is Richard Hoy, Angela's husband and business partner.

I thought it might be a good idea for everyone to see an example of the angry rhetoric and accusations we typically endure as a result of hosting the Whispers and Warnings Forum for you all.

Today's example is a company named Deveraux and Deloitte. They are located in the United Kingdom and their web site is at:

http://www.deverauxdeloitte.com/

It appears that the company does research writing - a customer sends them specifications for a research paper and they arrange for a writer to write the paper. It is unclear from their site if the writers are on staff or are freelance writers. But judging from comments on Whispers and Warnings as well as other Internet forums, it appears that at least some of their writers are working freelance.

On February 2, 2004, a post was placed on the Whispers and Warnings Forum inquiring if anyone had heard of the company and what their reputation was. That thread is here:

http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?t=1431

There were mixed responses - some pro and some against. But eventually the discussion evolved into the ethics of using such a service by students who then turn around and submit the papers to their instructors as their own. The reason the discussion evolved into this is because there was speculation that it was really Deveraux and Deloitte's primary business.

Afterwards, Angela received several emails from Deveraux and Deloitte threatening legal action, including ones claiming to be from a "Geoffrey Marston" in their legal department.

In a February 26, 2004 email to Angela, "Geoffrey Marston" wrote this:

"As a Barrister I can assure you that I am more than familiar with the law in this area."

A barrister, in the UK legal system, is someone authorized to argue a case before a court. The tone of the emails was quite unprofessional and Angela became suspicious. We investigated Geoffrey Marston's claim with The General Council of The Bar, the governing body for barristers in the UK. They told us that at one time there was a barrister named Geoffrey Marston and he was called to the bar (became a member) in July of 1993. But he is currently not a member, so there is, in fact, no practicing barrister named Geoffrey Marston in the UK at the present time.

Here is the letter they sent us:
http://www.writersweekly.com/images/misc/letter.jpg (jpeg, 73K)

We did find another barrister named Geoffrey Marston, but he died in 2002.

The headers in the emails from the Deveraux and Deloitte "barrister" included this line:

Received: from BARCLAY (unknown [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx]) (IP Address intentionally omitted by WritersWeekly)

On March 10, 2004, Angela received an email from "Barclay Deloitte" who claimed someone was posting things in his name to the WritersWeekly forum.

He then stated, "I realise that you are a small home based company and have no wishes to get involved in any argument or any legal action, however this matter is of course very, very serious. I certainly do not want this to turn into a dispute, you and your posters are of course entitled to view your opinions about us but someone has taken this too far..."

The headers from the emails received from "Barclay Deloitte" included this line:

Received: from BARCLAY (unknown [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx]) (IP Address intentionally omitted by WritersWeekly)

NOTE: The IP addresses were identical.

Notice the name "BARCLAY" appears in both.

In Angela's response to the email from "Barclay" she pointed out the following:

1.) That we put an inquiry about Geoffrey Marston in to The General Council of The Bar and they notified us that he is not licensed to practice in the UK.

2.) That Barclay and Geoffrey seem to have the exact same IP address.

He responded by stating, "Geoffrey trained at the bar, but was never called, and as such is an in-house legal expert. Our mails have of course come from the same office and computer network. I am not expert but I imagine that is the reason you will see the same I.P. address on your system."

Angela replied:

From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com>
To: "Barclay" <xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com>
Subject: RE: FW: Contact
Date sent: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:17:39 -0500

That's odd because Geoffrey specifically told me he's a barrister. Is
that not true or did I misunderstand something?

Angela


"Barclay" didn't respond.

Angela emailed "Barclay" again on March 13, 2004:

From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com>
To: xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Subject: (Fwd) RE: FW: Contact
Date sent: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:33:46 -0500


Hi Barclay,

I'm still waiting for confirmation on whether Geoffrey is or is not a
barrister.

Angela


He responded that he was too busy to deal with our inquiries, but then said, "As stated before he undertook the BVC course, but was never called. Thus he has trained as a Barrister but did not get called to the Bar or practice."

Angela then sent this email to "Geoffrey Marston."

From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com>
To: xxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Subject: RE: Contact
Copies to: xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Date sent: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:16:43 -0500

Hi Geoffrey,

After researching your claims and receiving confirmation from your
"employer", we have determined that you are not a barrister. You lied.

We have filed an official complaint about you with The General
Council of The Bar.

Angela Hoy
WritersWeekly.com


"Geoffrey Marston" never responded.

On April 13, 2004, Angela sent this email to "Barclay" and "Geoffrey":

From: Angela Hoy <angela(at)writersweekly.com
Subject: from WritersWeekly.com
Copies to: xxxxxxx at deverauxdeloitte.com
Date sent: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:08:12 -0400

We have received a response to our complaint to The General Council
of The Bar and they have confirmed you are not a practicing barrister
and that your actions were unethical.

We plan to publish this information in WritersWeekly under the
complaints about Deveraux and Deloitte. Perhaps you or your employer
would like to issue a statement in your own defense prior to
publication? We would be happy to publish any response you care to
submit.

Angela Hoy
WritersWeekly.com


They never responded.

We had already sent instructions to Deveraux and Deloitte on how they could post rebuttal messages to the forum in their own defense. Forum members can contact other forum members via their email or private message button. However, once we shared the information provided by the General Council of the Bar with them, things quieted down and we heard no more from anyone at Deveraux and Deloitte until six months later.

On December 4th, we received an email from yet another person claiming to represent Deveruax and Deloitte, a "James Gibson."

Mr. Gibson has a different IP address from "Barclay" and "Geoffrey". His misspellings and grammatical errors, along with his personal insults make us think he's writing to us in anger and not double-checking his writing before clicking "send." We're not sure why a company that claims to be as big as Deveraux and Deloitte is allowing someone like this to correspond with us in such a manner.

He demanded that various posts from the Deveraux and Deloitte thread be removed or they would ask that our ISP shut us down. Angela passed the email on to me and I took up the correspondence.

That is the story up to this point. Below begins my exchange with Mr. Gibson.

After we threatened to reveal all his email correspondence to our readers, in his last email, Mr. Gibson stated the following:

"...all correspondence sent to you from Deveraux and Deloitte is private and intended for the sole viewing of you and Angela Hoy only."

So, that means I'll have to paraphrase his side of the conversation.


----------------------------------
WritersWeekly.com:
----------------------------------

Date: 12/04/2004
To: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
From: richard at booklocker.com
Subject: Re: Deveraux and Deloitte - Notice Of Libellous Postings

Mr. Gibson,

This matter has been referred to me. I am President and Co-owner of
Booklocker.com, Inc., which owns WritersWeekly.com.

I suggest you read this statement, which is on top of every page of the Forum:

"Statements appearing in these forums represent the opinions of the
authors of each
post, not the opinion of WritersWeekly.com and/or Booklocker.com."

We are not responsible for what is posted on our Forum. The people
making the posts are. United States law supports this position.

Therefore, if you have a problem with what is being said about your
company, you need to contact the posters of the messages and resolve
the matter with them.

Good day to you,

Richard Hoy
President
Booklocker.com, Inc.


---------------------------------------------------------
Deveraux and Deloitte's Response
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:05:07 -0000
From: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>

(paraphrased by Richard Hoy):

He makes a crack about me and Angela working at home, then tells me how disappointed he is that I've taken this stance and how I have no sense.

He assures me that the only outcome will be that the posts will be removed.

Then he says they will review the US law I cited.

Then he demands that I turn over all the email addresses and IP addresses of the people who made the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like.

He ends by reiterating that he will take this up with my ISP.

----------------------------------
WritersWeekly.com:
----------------------------------

Date: 12/06/2004
To: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
From: richard at booklocker.com
Subject: Re: Deveraux and Deloitte - Notice Of Libellous Postings

Mr. Gibson,

Our privacy policy prohibits us from releasing that information
except under court order. So you would need to get such an order
before we would release that information.

What public information there is on a poster is under their profile,
which you can access by selecting the profile link under their post.

Best,

Richard Hoy
Booklocker.com, Inc.


---------------------------------------------------------
Deveraux and Deloitte's Response
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:39:21 -0000
From: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>

(paraphrased by Richard Hoy):

Because I've not cooperated with his demand for the email addresses and IP addresses of the people who made the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like, he is going to contact my ISP.

He posts the contact information of our ISP to prove he knows who they are.

He says they are lodging an official complaint with them.

He accuses Angela of making some of the posts in question under pseudonyms, in a direct attempt to damage them without detection.

He reiterates his demand to remove the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like, and makes a new one. He now wants us to also police the forum for future offending posts.

----------------------------------
WritersWeekly.com:
----------------------------------

Date: 12/16/2004
To: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>
From: richard at booklocker.com
Subject: Re: FW: Deveraux and Deloitte - Our Next Steps

Mr. Gibson,

As I have already stated to you in my email of 12/06/2004, under US
law we are not responsible for the postings of individual Forum
members. The individuals who made the postings are responsible. I
suggest you contact them.

You are welcome to email your complaint to our ISP. I've already
discussed this matter with them. They informed me it is well
documented in the United States that ISPs are not responsible for
posts to public bulletin boards. So as a matter of practice, they
ignore such complaints.

I will not correspond with you further on this matter.

The only way I would possibly discuss this further with your company
is if I get real correspondence from a real attorney with a real
license to practice law in the United States, not emails from an
alleged Deveraux and Deloitte corporate barrister who, upon
investigation, is not subscribed to The General Council of the Bar,
and thus is not a practicing barrister.

If you send any further correspondence to anyone at our company,
including even so much as a response to this email, I will start
posting on WritersWeekly.com correspondence we've had with Deveraux
and Deloitte so that our readers can see Deveraux and Deloitte seems
to be the kind of company that would send threatening, and, in at
least the case of the email from your supposed corporate barrister,
misleading correspondence in a effort to silence critics rather than
deal with their public relations problems in a constructive way.

Best,
Richard Hoy
Booklocker.com, Inc.


---------------------------------------------------------
Deveraux and Deloitte's Response
---------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:30:36 -0000
From: James Gibson <XXXXXX at deverauxdeloitte.com>

(paraphrased by Richard Hoy):

He accuses me of being stupid. He says that I am willfully and knowingly making it impossible for them to contact the authors of the posts Deveraux and Deloitte don't like.

He says I've breached my duty of disclosure by blocking any possibility of the requisite action being executed by ourselves, and are therefore likely to be held responsible for my actions to some extent.

He assures me that they will not allow their "business interests and reputation to be damaged".

He demands our physical address.

He accuses us of hiding because we have a PO Box as our public address.

He says they will be "seeking to fully recover any costs against you in this matter, however far down the necessary legal channels it should need to progress."

This is the part where he tells me "...all correspondence sent to you from Deveraux and Deloitte is private and intended for the sole viewing of you and Angela Hoy only." (Hence my paraphrasing.)

He tells me he will go after me legally if I post his exact words.

He reiterates that he will be contacting my ISP.

He awaits my prompt response.

END

That is the last thing that has been sent to us as of 12/17/2004.

I'll update this as new correspondence comes in.

best,
richard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 1:20 pm 
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Joined: May 17th, 2004, 12:17 pm
Posts: 210
Location: Over here, under the books
It's been my experience that sleazebags in general don't have the common sense to keep quiet when they are outed. Instead, they just work themselves up into a public lather.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 1:49 pm 
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Joined: October 8th, 2003, 4:46 pm
Posts: 687
Maybe their "barrister" didn't get called up because he used some paper-churning company to do his work for him??? Just a thought.

Cathi Stevenson
Nova Scotia, Canada (where I still get to legally pass an opinion or post a theory).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 17th, 2004, 8:36 pm 
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Joined: April 29th, 2004, 8:49 pm
Posts: 3631
Location: God's country
I am sorry you guys have to go thru this when all you are doing is trying to run a business and provide a great service to writers via the forum and Whispers/Warnings.
As Shakespear said, "Thou doth protest too much"--people who are caught with their panties down sure do scream alot.

_________________
A life well-lived is its own novel.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 26th, 2004, 2:44 am 
Boy oh boy, I wonder what it is with companies like this Richard and Angela. I see you both have had your share of headache too. Like Willow said above you are just trying to run a buisness and no one deserves to be threaten.As you both well know I have delt with my share.Being a founder of a website is anything but easy. I know oh so well. I think you are running a wonderful business here.
Keep up the good work, many support your efforts.

I hope you both had a Merry Christmas.

Rose


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 Post subject: Deveraux et devilry
PostPosted: December 26th, 2004, 12:49 pm 
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Joined: November 6th, 2004, 2:11 pm
Posts: 8
sorry... they had calls for freelancers a month or two months ago listed in craigslist and on other writer's lists. i sent for their guidelines and they were rather scammy...papermill with incredibly low paying rate. do not think they are big stuff, they just have a name that looks like big stuff (Deloitte-Touche-etc)

and even worse, they had an ad posted on UC Berkeley in the journalism school which I tripped across and filed a complaint. Didn't think that Berkely wanted people thinking it advocated bought papers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: December 29th, 2004, 9:11 pm 
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Joined: December 29th, 2004, 8:57 pm
Posts: 4
these guys seem like con artist who just want make quick money.

This is one company operating under different names:

Academic Knowledge – academicknowledge.com
Deveraux and Deloitte – deverauxanddeloitte.com
Deveraux and Deloitte – deverauxdeloitte.com
Degree Essays UK – ukessays.com
Law Essays UK - law-essays.com
UK Tutors - uk-tutors.com
Research America - researchamericaservices.com
UK Research - uk-research.com


i am currently researching into this company because i have heard a lot terrible things about this company and a so called 'Mr Barclay Littlewood'

any il get back to you when i have found info on them


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 8th, 2005, 2:54 am 
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Joined: October 2nd, 2003, 2:17 am
Posts: 2391
Location: Canada
Wow! These people must be totally off their rockers. Did he really expect you to send him the contact info for everyone who has posted an opinion opposed to theirs? What's next - they send some guy named Guido to the door with a pipe wrench? *shaking head*

They got caught in their lie and are trying to strong-arm you into removing the posts. People like that make me sick.

I really appreciate the service you provide here for us writers. Have a good new year.

zubbycat

_________________
"Read! Read! Read! Write! Write! Write! Rewrite! Rewrite! Rewrite!" - Pierre Berton
"Writing is easy. All you have to do is cross out the wrong words." - Mark Twain


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 Post subject: Deveraux & Deloitte
PostPosted: January 12th, 2005, 7:59 pm 
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Joined: March 24th, 2004, 3:30 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Hyderabad
Hi,

I'm from Hyderabad, India and was really shocked to read through this thread of correspondence. Firstly, I've written research articles for them. I don't know what was exactly stated in the Forum, but guess that something about their payment process. I'm giving below my experience with D & D.

I read many of Angela's warnings about not giving bank routing number and other information to anyone at any cost. So, I became suspicious when D & D insisted on knowing my banker's routing number. I tried to avoid giving it until there was a danger of losing the payment due to me. When I consulted my bankers, they didn't have any objection in my giving the info, so I collected the details wanted by D & D and sent them.

There was no acknowledgement of receipt of the information, nor was there any info on progress about payment processing. I waited for two months and when there was no information from them, wrote to them asking when I'm likely to receive payment. To cut a long story short, after further three months delay, they sent me a check directly, which was honored and payment made. However, I haven't received any further research work from them.

I was thinking of writing to them for work, when I read this thread and thought I'd share my experience with D & D with you. If it's useful to anyone, I'll be really glad.

Rama Rao


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 12th, 2005, 9:14 pm 
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Joined: January 7th, 2005, 1:22 pm
Posts: 4
I would just like to also add my support for you and your website. A few days ago (before I found writersweekly) I knew nothing about the journey of being a writer. I now know at least something of what to expect and be wary of, and IT'S ALL BEEN FREE! Imagine that. Thanks

_________________
chewman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: January 13th, 2005, 12:49 am 
No offense to Cricketer intended...

Has anyone noticed the recent spike in companies (US and UK) farming out freelance writing work to India? Crimeny.


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PostPosted: January 17th, 2005, 10:40 pm 
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Joined: December 29th, 2004, 8:57 pm
Posts: 4
If there is anyone out there who has something to say about this company i.e. a writer who has worked for them in the past, a consumer how has bought from them, an employee who has or is working for them, but is too scared because of the consequences they may face. You may email me directly. I want to gather as much information as I can about this company, I already posses a few leads but I require as much as I can. All information provided will be held with confidential some of the information may be used with your approval.

Ian
at_your_side2001@yahoo.co.uk


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 Post subject: Official Statement
PostPosted: February 2nd, 2005, 12:47 pm 
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Joined: January 31st, 2005, 9:25 pm
Posts: 3
Please read our official statement about this matter here.

http://forums.writersweekly.com/viewtopic.php?p=27372#27372


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